www.MSgroups.com read only forum (Jan.15,2018)

wagon wrote:I have spoken to people in Australia that have had their cars converted to LPG injection - they retained their petrol (so dual fuel) and actually GAINED power on lpg and got even more economy. Sounds like a great idea to me!

I've been stalking you Kendall and found the above post here

Can I run my thing on LPG and retain the MS for spark AND fuel?

I thought LPG injection was out of the question, but a conventional LPG setup controlling fuelling and MS controlled ingition would be doable. Am I wrong in that assumption???

Damo.

I suppose there would be some kind of dual table setup you could run... I have not seen an LPG injection setup 'in the metal' but I reckon they would be pretty good, especially with a dirty big snail bolted to the side. I think the power gains come with reduced intake temps and such - has to be better than the 'carby' lpg crap that us mere mortals use - backfires, lean spots, no guts off idle, etc. PLUS gas converters that fail regularly because of the oil in the lpg baking itself onto all the moving parts - just lucky the price of gas makes the repairs affordable. LPG injection - mmm, good.

wagon wrote:I have not seen an LPG injection setup 'in the metal' but I reckon they would be pretty good

Do you think the factory LPG Falcons be able to donate bits that we could use? I have NFI what their setup is, and haven't seen one.

wagon wrote:especially with a dirty big snail bolted to the side.

We are thinking along the same lines ;-) oh, and LPG is realtively cheap too!

wagon wrote:I think the power gains come with reduced intake temps and such - has to be better than the 'carby' lpg crap that us mere mortals use - backfires, lean spots, no guts off idle, etc. PLUS gas converters that fail regularly because of the oil in the lpg baking itself onto all the moving parts - just lucky the price of gas makes the repairs affordable. LPG injection - mmm, good.

The next project vehicle is starting to come together in my head, and LPG injection would be perfect for it. Time to start researching I think!

As far as I know, factory LPG Falcons are still the old-style gas setup. Grumbles.

wagon wrote:As far as I know, factory LPG Falcons are still the old-style gas setup. Grumbles.

Yeah, I have NFI about LPG. Liquid injection sounds like too much trouble, and expensive. And as far as I know the only other alternative is the old school stuff. And that just isn't any fun coz you cant control it with MS

Thanks for the coffee BTW! Was good to catch up.

I have a feeling that the falcon LPG, along with alot of other systems, use the carby mixer style setup, but rather than a mechanically ooperated valve to meter the mixture, they use a pulsewidth controlled valve so the fuel is still controlled by the ECU.

but this is only from a fading memory as I never had alot to do with them as they were just new when I wasw still an apprentice and I moved on not long after.

EDIT: one of the guys on the ausrotary forums brings up a thread about LPG injection occasionally, last I heard the LPG injectors were still prohibitively expensive. and unreliable.

I have a suspicion those mixers were actually just a 'trim' of the mixtures (using the stepper) but I could be wrong..

there's a guy on toymods who was doing 11 sec 1/4 miles runs with a 6cyl 2 litre (1GGTE) that was running gas.

turbo -> intreooler -> gas research carbi - > engine

His biggest issue was finding a suitable ignition computer.

The Gas Research jobs are not like the old-style 'ring of gas' things that sit on top of the existing carbis.

ALthough they recommend a draw-thu setup (which rules out an intercooler), they seem to work with blow-thru if done right.

from their web site

I forgot about the GRA stuff... They make a dual fuel variant too - but the stuff is expensive - although it is government subsidised. Should be OK - have a look at their website - there are a few turbo boxes on there from what I remember.

Just thought you guys might be interested in something I found, LPG injectors.

There are 2 main types of LPG injection, liquid LPG injection which deals with LPG at very high pressures, and LPG vapour injection. The latter is pretty similar to how old school LPG systems work except instead of a gas carby or throttle body they use an injector to supply the vapourised LPG. The injectors don't look anything to exotic, they look like they use a standard Bosch connector and i'm sure I read somewhere they are about 4 ohm. I can't se any reason why MS wouldn't be able to run these things. Injector opening time may be a little different than normal fuel but I believe the LPG vapour injectors open up much wider than a normal fuel injector, so it probably wouldn't be too much different.

Pics of a LPG vapour injector




Romano Autogas is the Italian company that makes those injectors, I haven't found anyone else that makes them yet. Their web site is http://www.romanoautogas.it/. And they have an Australian distributor in Melbourne, http://www.amrgas.com/. I have also seen the Romano injectors on eBay(!) for about $50 a piece. I haven't been able to find specs (flow rate etc) on them yet though. eBay store http://stores.ebay.com.au/Partsrange

Damo.