www.MSgroups.com read only forum (Jan.15,2018)

Hi all,

I am in the process of organising a ms install on a F100 351 cleveland v8 for a mate. It will be running ignition only as it is on lpg. I am wondering what the best way to go about crank angle sensing is for these motors. I don't want to use vr sensors as I have had trouble with noise in the past and the owner doesn't like the idea of a toothed wheel and sensor up the front of the motor getting covered in mud.
Has anyone had any success with after market hall or optical conversion kits for distributors? Petronix look good but I will have to call them to make sure they have some sort of tdc signal for the ms to reset.
TFI and EDIS look good but there seems to be issues with finding a suitable distributor to fit the old motor. I have read that 460 TFI distributors fit but I would have to find one from the US.

Any advice would be appreciated.

If you trigger off the Dizzy and only run a single coil then you don't need a TDC signal. You only need the TDC signal when running multiple Coils ie wasted spark.

If you don't want to run a tooth wheel on the crank I would suggest you convert the dizzy to some sort of electronic pick up (VR, Hall etc) and just run MS in Distributer mode. Jaycar used to sell a Hall effect sensor designed for use in distributors, You would have to make your own 8 tooh wheel to go inside the dizzy though.

If you want to run wasted spark (4 Coils) then you could use a hall sensor and a custom missing tooth wheel inside the dizzy (ie 24-1).

Hope that makes sense.

Edit: I just remembered you can buy Chev style HEI distributors to suit ford engines. I'm not sure where to buy them but have seen them. Have a look in the megamanual about how to connect HEI distributers. If you got one of these you could ditch the module and connect the VR sensor directly to the MS and drive the coil directly form MS. That is bassically how I set up my mates Hilux 22r which uses a VR sensor in the standard dizzy.

Also don't forget to lock the advance if triggering off the dizzy.

I have used a Crane Fireball Ignition kit before but they do use an optical sensor ( you would have to take care that it did not get mud in the distributor) or in my HQ I used a hall-effect sensor from Jaycar p/n: ZD1900 to modify a standard Chev distributor. The hall effect sensor works well with the MSnS E mod, if you want details on my build have a look here http://www.msruns.com/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=22639

Pro-Comp also sell distributors in the HEI style or electronic versions. They have a store at Liverpool in Sydney or you can mail order or try evilBay ( eBay ).

If you can get hold of the Pertronix for a good price that would be a good way to go as well.

Good luck with the MegaSquirting.

Thanks for the replies, has helped a lot. I think I will go for the Jaycar hall effect device as it is cheap ($25) and just what I am after. I just need to sort out a trigger wheel. I guess it would have to look something like this. How critical is the width of the teeth?

If you have a look on the Jaycar site you should be able to fine the dimensions of the hall-effect sensor. I think the disk I made was about 1.0 to 1.8mm thick with 8 slots cut in on a mill using a rotary-vice. The main concern is to get the slots seperated by the same angles but If you are using the rising edge then the falling edge does not have to be as acurate. If you are going for a multi-tooth layout then getting the disc cnc cut would be your best option.

Here are a few picks of my dizzy. It works fine up to the red-line of ~5500rpm.

You can see the two screws on top which lock the mechanical advance. I also used a sealed ball-bearing to replace the top bush.





The distributor is wired up with a ground (-), a 12 Volt supply (+) and it pulls the signal wire to ground depending on if there is ferous metal in the gap or not.

Looks great. I think I will just find someone to laser or cnc a multi tooth wheel when I am in Sydney next.

I rang a Pertronix dealer today and they said the igniters they sell just have 8 magnets in the hall ring they use but no way of marking tdc so if I want to use coil packs then I will have to use a custom wheel.

If it were me doing this job I would go with EDIS or some sort of distributorless ignition. The spark will be fatter and with no moving parts it should be reliable. If interference with VR signals is a problem, shield the wiring better. You should be able to make a guard to keep crud out of the system. I have EDIS on my 250ci six (XE falcon) and we use it on my mates 1uz Hilux - works well. I have a CAD drawing suitable for laser cutting - PM me your email and I'll send it to you. (36-1 type) It can be resized to suit your application. Just had a thought, actually - you could make a 72-2 trigger wheel - ie 36-1, 36-1 in a circle and put it in a big dissy body - then you could use EDIS.

The F100 is up and running. I ended up using 4 vs commodore coils and a jaycar hall sensor inside the old distributor running a 24-1 window wheel.
The hall sensor works well. I wired it up like long283 suggested and it worked but had a little bit of noise causing a miss so I tried something I read somewhere, can't remember the link, using the tps 5v to power the hall sensor and connected the ground to XG1 and removed the jumper. This did not replace the ground but added to it. I also twisted the power and earth wires around the shielded signal wire and moved them away from the ignition leads as much as I could. One of the above fixed the problem.
It does tell us that jaycar sensors work on 5v and another handy hint is that the windows on the wheel need to be about 4.5mm - 5mm apart for the sensor to work. I had a wheel laser cut but the windows were slightly too narrow and the sensor didn't work. I changed the wheel to have wider gaps and had to move the sensor further from the center to work.

thanks for the help

Glad to hear you had some success.

The mechanic I did the dyno-tuning with asked me to help him modify a 351 Cleveland manifold for a customer with a Shelby Cobra. With a 4-barrel throttlebody and 14" round air-filter on top it should still resemble a classic carb fed motor in the engine bay.
Here's a couple of pics of milling for the injector bungs.